I don't quite see a need to filter based on country of origin, but I presume you've got one.
But like other people have said, you're making some catagories broader and also narrower at the same time. Why are anime and manga still lumped together when you're being so over-specific about separating out other sequential art? And there are a bunch of sequential art fandoms that are left out - what about stuff like Archie, or Ducktails, or the numerous independent comics out there?
Similarly, I browse the archive on my phone a lot. Anything that's going to make doing that harder (by making catagory names so long they take up multiple lines on the screen, or forcing me to go through multiple menus to get to things, is a major negative in my book.
I can see the country useful since there are people who are fans of, say, British shows or Korean dramas. For me the language of the canon is the weird one, and I can't come up with a reason why anyone would look for works based on that and not based on the language of the fanwork?
"I don't quite see a need to filter based on country of origin"
So people can more easily pat themselves on the back for having oh so culturally diverse tastes, I would think. And yet, as you quite rightly point out, they're still lumping anime and manga together as though they're the same thing.
Don't give us lip service about caring about non-Western fandoms, AO3. Get people on your team who actually care about them.
It's not quite as straight forward as you are making out. There are some anime and manga fandoms that have subtags for their anime and manga versions, but there are a lot of users that don't differentiate between whether it's the manga or anime version of say Kuroko no Basuke.
They are "lumping" anime and manga together because those of us who are fans have repeatedly asked for this. If your going to throw a hissy fit about something, at least get your facts straight.
I think filtering on country base on origin might be helpful. If you don't want it, don't use it.
They claim to care about non-Western fandoms and then actually privilege specific Western fandom groups in the category structure (DC & Marvel instead of Comic Books or something similar). I'm hoping this was simply an oversight, especially since the FAQ says this originated out of the committee that is supposed to be focused on international issues...
Anime and manga fans have repeatedly asked the staff to keep the two genres together, particularly because the fandoms of anime and manga adaptations of works generally overlap and fans rarely specify which version they're writing for when they post fic. Separating them would be a very big headache for us as fans and I'm sure for the staff too.
AnimeAndMangaFan (Guest)
Wed 18
Sep 201308:28PM UTC
You asked for it. I for sure didn't, but then I'm into canons that don't try to sell me the same story twice and I very much prefer to read the version my mood strikes me for and not a terrible forced together clash of anime and manga canon. I would wish for them to be separated and I don't see it as a headache at all.
Is there a need to get unpleasant about it? If you're into anime and manga, I assume you've already noticed that basically no one separates out the two versions when posting fic. AO3 artificially trying to insert a separation between mediums is not going to make the fans conform to your ideal behavior.
AnimeAndMangaFan (Guest)
Wed 18
Sep 201308:52PM UTC
No, I simply see people working with a system that has been copied from another site. It's not like there's another choice. If I separate, chance are extremely high, it's just going to get wrangled back into one fandom. People will mostly follow what's already there. If it had been separated from the beginning, people would no clamor against throwing them into the same sub-category.
Yes, I really dislike you speaking as if you were speaking and mind-reading the desires of all Manga and Anime fans.
I'm really confused by your hostile tone here. The things I've been restating are things that numerous other people have already brought up in the many, many discussions that have already been held on the subject of where anime/manga should fall in AO3's categories. I'm not "mind reading" anyone's desires, I've been summarizing the arguments that have already been made over the past months for the benefit of people who were wondering why the categorization ended up this way.
If you wish to continue this discussion please come back willing to talk respectfully on your own account under your own name.
If you create a tag that distinguishes medium and there's sufficient difference between the two versions (which is admittedly something of a judgement call, because it's hard to create firm guidelines for something like that), they should be sub-tagged to the same meta-tag. There are a number of anime and manga fandoms like that already, including Sailor Moon and Fullmetal Alchemist. If the wrangler for your fandom makes them synonyms, you can submit a support request asking that they be separated (something I have successfully done myself for certain fandoms). But the majority standard in wider English-language anime and manga fandom has typically been to generally consider anime and manga versions of the story to be equivalent, even if there are some variations in storyline, going back a very long time and encompassing organization in everything from huge, multi-fandom archives like shoujoai.com to single-series, multi-user archives to tiny personal websites. This is really AO3 trying to work within community norms for the wider fandom.
That's nice for you, but you're not the only person using the archive, and others have indeed asked that the categories be kept together. I haven't participated in these discussions to date, but if I had, as a writer I would be saying that it would indeed be a huge headache for me if the archive decided to separate the categories. I came into fandom through a writing and reading culture that often takes a bricolage approach to anime and manga canons, and if the archive separated the two I would have no clue where to archive anything.
Obviously, there's no reason standing alone why my preferences and ideas of what's functional should outweigh yours, or vice versa. But it should be equally obvious that your preferences aren't automatically representative of all anime or manga fans, and that the fact that the archive resolved the conflict in a way you personally dislike doesn't mean it's giving "us" lip service about caring about non-Western fandoms. "I don't like this" doesn't mean "Help, help, I'm being oppressed."
Anime and manga are lumped together because for many, if not most fandoms, they're treated as synonymous because the fandom is coalesced around both -- some people have only read the manga, others have only seen the anime, and many have read and seen both. Not lumping them together would mean that for completeness sake, and for the sake of those looking for fic, a writer would have to list a fic under the anime, manga, and (if any) combined fandom. Why put her through that work if the convention used by most fans and fandoms in this category is unified?
I say this as someone whose first two fandoms, in which I've written extensively and of whose communities I'm a member, are manga and anime fandoms (Gravitation and Saiyuki). Believe me, I like the manga better than the anime in both instances and have seen little of the anime in either instance, but stories for Gravitation especially often are based solely on knowledge of the anime. And in both instances, the fans don't make the distinctions you do, even though some of us, like me, write based on the manga because I consider the anime a non-canonical (or sometimes semi-canonical when there are elements I want to use) secondary source.
Thank you for your feedback regarding long names and mobile browsing. The current grouping of anime and manga together was in response to the fact that is customary and expected among many fans, and to the difficulty of separating the two given the high degree of overlap. Under the current design Archie, Ducktails, etc. would fall directly under the top Animation, Comics, Manga & Other Sequential Art category with no submedia. The purpose of being able to filter by language and country of origin is in fact to be able to better separate large categories - for example, if you were looking for fandoms such as Ducktails you could filter the category for U.S. origin and English.
Comment on Call for Feedback on Category Change Proposal
duckgirlie Wed 18 Sep 2013 06:26PM UTC
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Ruuger Wed 18 Sep 2013 06:59PM UTC
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musikurt Thu 19 Sep 2013 03:36AM UTC
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wednesdaysky Wed 18 Sep 2013 08:06PM UTC
Last Edited Wed 18 Sep 2013 08:06PM UTC
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AnimeAndMangaFan (Guest) Wed 18 Sep 2013 08:28PM UTC
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wednesdaysky Wed 18 Sep 2013 08:46PM UTC
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AnimeAndMangaFan (Guest) Wed 18 Sep 2013 08:52PM UTC
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wednesdaysky Wed 18 Sep 2013 08:55PM UTC
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(3 more comments in this thread)
undomielregina Wed 18 Sep 2013 09:11PM UTC
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lawless Thu 19 Sep 2013 01:43PM UTC
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LadyOscar (Category_Change_Workgroup) Thu 19 Sep 2013 04:57PM UTC
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